The Arena
The Arena

Episode · 9 years ago

A Fight for our Nation’s Soul: An Interview with Pastor Jim Garlow

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In anticipation of Pulpit Freedom Sunday on October 7th, Father Josiah interviews Pastor Jim Garlow, megachurch pastor, scholar, and cultural commentator. Pastor Jim is one of America's leading clergymen, thoroughly immersed in the battle for religious freedom in our land. This hard-hitting interview addresses the serious threat to religious liberty and freedom of conscience facing American Christians at this moment in history, and provides guidance for concerned Christians about how they can stay true to their faith and help America through these perilous times.

Ancient faith. Radio and patristic nectar publications present the arena Sunday homilies and theological reflections with Father Josiah Trenam. In this episode, in anticipation of Pulpit Freedom Sunday on October seventh, Father Josiah interviews megachurch pastor, scholar and cultural commentators, Pastor Jim garlow. Pastor Jim is one of America's leading clergymen, thoroughly immersed in the battle for religious freedom in our land. This hard hitting interview addresses the serious threat to religious liberty and freedom of conscience facing American Christians at this moment in history and provides guidance for concerned Christians about how they can stay true to their faith and help America through these perilous times. May this interview be enriching and edifying to you, our listeners. For more lectures, patristic audio books, sacred music and interviews, please visit our website at www dot patristic nectar dot org. Again, that's www dot patristic nectar dot org. patristic nectar publications no nourishing this spiritually thirsty with the sweet teachings of the Holy Fathers, and now the interview. It is a tremendous joy to have pastor Jim garlow, the Reverend Doctor Jim Garla, with us today. Dr Jim is the author of twelve books, a communicator, a commentator and historian and cultural observer and the senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan church in San Diego, California. He's heard daily on more than eight hundred and thirty radio outlets nationwide in his one minute commentary called the garlow perspective. In Two thousand and ten pastor Jim, while continuing to pastor in San Diego, was appointed by former speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, to be the chairman of Real, renewing American leadership, based in Washington. DC. Reel's mission is to preserve America's Judeo Christian heritage by defending and promoting the four pillars of American civilization, faith, family, freedom and Free Enterprise. Through his role with real, garlow is partnering with the Alliance Defending Freedom for pulpit freedom Sunday, encouraging pastors nationwide to speak truth boldly from their pulpits on pulpit freedom Sunday, October seventh, two thousand and twelve. He is a man who is credentialed and thoroughly educated. He has a Ph d in historical theology from Du Through University. Most...

...importantly, at least to this interviewer, he's a faithfully married man to his beloved wife Carol. He has many children and I've been blessed myself to make Pastor Jim's acquaintance to our common concern to protect an uphold traditional biblical marriage in the state of California and across our nation, in which battle pastor Jim is exercising tremendous leadership. Pastor Jim, it's an honor to interview you today. Well, it's not going to be on with you, my friend, Pastor Jim. If we can lost right into this interview for myself and for our our listeners, I want to begin by making an appeal to one chronicles in the Old Testament. There it's written that King David gathered around himself many capable leaders, including the sons of Issachar, who were deemed by the chronicler to be men who understood the times, with knowledge of what Israel should do. Pastor Jim, would you share with our listeners your pastoral heart for our nation. How do you understand the times and what should we be doing? How would you give a crash course in two minutes that might take several hours to really untack? I would say from I'm going to give you said quick some nail over you, from sixteen o seven to eighteen thirty three, those of us that were adhering to the Christian faith, whether the through Orthodox or through the various other branches of Christendom, would have been known as the establishment, but eighteen thirty three changed that. Now these years are really not that important. What I want people see is as a trend. From eighteen thirty three been to nineteen eighteen, the people who were people of faith, biblical faith, were the predominant force in the culture. And what we're tracking here is what is the relation between people adhere to scriptural truth and the broader culture? Rephrasing that, what is the relationship between those of us that are part of the faith, the people of God, and our relationship to the broader culture? And what we're going to see in this pathway is we've been moved slowly, slowly, bit by bit, to the outside and our values and even we as people have been marginalized and our influence is not filled in the way it once was. From eighteen thirty three to SI indicate, to nineteen eighteen, we were the predominant force in culture. From nineteen eighteen to nineteen sixty eight, we were what I call a subdominant force in culture. From nineteen sixty eight, which is the most turbulent here in American history sociology calls outside the Civil War, twenty sixteenth, nineteen eighty we became a subculture. That means there are other subcultures, all who had their own value structure, and all those values are buying for ascendency. Somebody's values are going to win, some mysaters are going to lose. And in from nineteen eighty to nineteen ninety eight we became wing to fight counter culture. And then from effectively it happened to end an eighth is not intentional, but ninety eight to two thousand and eight we were antathetical to the culture. And there was Isaaih Chapter Five, verse twenty. They called bad good, they called good bad, and even...

Jose and nine hundred and twenty seven says that's because your sins are so many. I'm speaking of America's a nation because your sins are so many and your cynicism so great. We call the prophet a fool and the inspiring man of maniac and it works. It's thrown away the men of God, the person of God, the person is the proclaimer of truth and it's from two thousand and eight, which you and I experience. In the profit battle for marriage in California, I think we took on a new marker that we didn't want to have, and that was the persecuted church. We began to now, for the first time, experience bone fly persecution. Pastors had of security and protection, many of them did, after the vote of marriage. One man, one woman. So we went from being an episoder of culture slowly moved out, quite ostracized, highly marginalized and moving to the outskirts. That means we are citizens of Jerusalem, were residents of Babyla, and that caused us the rethink our functional, practical Ecclesiology, how we do church in a thoroughly hostile environment. I'm not discourage. I wish it wasn't this way, but I'm not the least bit discourage. You and I were made for this moment. God. God not taken by surprise. We were made for this moment and it's our moment right now to understand how to function in a culture that finds itself oftentimes very hostile to us, or we perceive it being hostile. Close with this thought on this question that when I was in a CBS in New York City one time doing some interviews back there they're Gotteran, an evangelical Christian who is a part of CBS News, a particular show, and I said how, how do they perceive you? How are you? Are you received here as a Bible leaving Christian in this environment? And he looked at me and he said they're not as hostile to me as I expected, but they do not understand us at all. And so that became the Lynch pin in my life to try to reach out and form meaningful friendships with those that I perceived to be most hostile to my values and invest energy in them as friends, because I think it's the thing that Jesus would have us do. Pastor Jim, listening to you, I'm thinking to myself that perhaps some of our listeners might doubt just how challenging the circumstances are, just how a hostile the culture could be, especially when you use the word persecution. I'm wondering if you could flesh out for us a little bit exactly what you mean by that. How how our faithful pastors and believers being persecuted? Today? It comes in the form primarily legalities and prosecution. Persecution is now spilled prosecution. I just came from speaking at a Christian University. I mean I'm literally on the road right now as we're doing this show. Just spoke moments ago. As Christian University, like all Christian universities, is being forced by the current administration to embrace the HC as principles. In other words, they're going to have to provide insurance that covers a board deficients, they're going to have to...

...provide assurance provides for the abortion of a baby within the womb of a woman, and so this this university, like several universities, has entered into a lawsuit against the current administration advance of violation of our capacity to function as believers. We think of adoption agency, shut down existed for over a hundred years in Massachusetts, highly reputable because it would not violate his conscience and adopt babies, for example, to the same sex couples or I think of the powerful holiness. Can't be one of those beautiful camp meetings anywhere in the world. is on the Atlantic Ocean, in Ocean Goo, New Jersey, and to lesbians demanded to have a ceremony on that sitness and no where where church. We won't. The State of New Jersey is stepped in on a lawsuit continues to this day. A photographer Nolbuquerque, New Mexico, who I've met, Elaine Juganen, said no, I will not film the ceremony. I'll get a photographer who will the celebration ceremony for these two lesbians. The state of new Mexic to step them. She's being fine. Dave, Antania, Parker and Lexington, Massachusetts, reflectively thrown out of the public school when all they did was request that their second grader be released. They know notified when they're talking discussing homosexuality in the second grade, and they said no, we refuse to do that. And that kind of thing is happening across America today. That the examples. There are so many examples occurring. We face a culture for we have two locomotives on the same track, running a high speed, and one locomotive is religious liberty, religious freedom, and the other one is the radical seculars to gem the primarily manifested in the redefinition of marriage, and people on both sides of this issue at high levels all get up. They know the religious liberty and the redefinition of marriage cannot coexist in the same nation at the same time. One is going to go to and the other will not. In a high level current administrative official said, well, we know religious liberties important, but we feel like these rights of these people who are homosexualize so great that, if it has to, it needs to chop religious liberty. That comes from a high level official in the current administration. He re Ala zone. This is heartwrenching to hear and to listen to. Pastor Jim, let me piggyback off that last reference to religious liberty. We Orthodox Christians have noted of late to the admirable efforts of various Christian leaders in our country to protect and to preserve religious freedom in America, yourself included, to defend the unborn from abortion and especially to engage in this battle to defend marriage as the God ordained union of a man and a woman. In fact, I would like, if it's okay with you, to read the official statement of the Assembly of Orthodox bishops in America about these matters. It's a record...

...of protest against the infringement of religious liberty by the Department of Health and Human Services. This was published by our assembly of Orthodox bishops here in the United States in February of this year and reads as follows. The assembly of Canonical Orthodox bishops of North and Central America, which is comprised of the sixty five canonical Orthodox bishops in the United States, Canada and Mexico, join their voices with the United States Conference of Catholic bishops and all those who adamantly protest the recent decision by the United States Department of Health and Human Services, and call upon all the Orthodox Christian faithful to contact their elected representatives today to voice their concern in the face of this threat to the sanctity of the church's conscience. In this ruling by the HHS, religious hospitals, educational institutions and other organizations will be required to pay the full con post of contraceptives, including some abortion inducing drugs and sterilizations for their employees. Regardless of the religious convictions of the employers. The First Amendment of the United States constitution guarantees the free exercise of religion. This freedom is transgressed when a religious institution is required to pay for contraceptive services, including abortion inducing drugs and sterilization services, that directly violate their religious convictions. Providing such services should not be regarded as mandated medical care. We, the assembly of Orthodox bishops, called upon the Aghx, Secretary Sebelius and the Obama Administration to rescind this unjust ruling and to respect the religious freedom guaranteed all Americans by the First Amendment. This is the end of the statement and I admire Pastor Jim. I admire Cardinal Dolan and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for their their fortnight of freedom, for calling their priests and faithful to concerted prayer and fasting, for their dialog with the President and Congress on these issues and for the litigation that they have engaged in defense of the free exercise of religion in our land. And we're also aware of the work that many evangelical pastors and Black Pastors are doing to defend our common religious princes stables. You are are leaders in this, in this battle, and you yourself are at the forefront of this effort. I'm wondering, Pastor Jim, if you would share with us your work in this area and especially your propagation of pulpit freedom Sunday. What's that all about? I'll jump into that, but I just want to stop and say a huge thank you. I praise God for the Orthodox Church. As you're reading a statement, my heart was just I'm so thankful. I the prides of knowing you and becoming acquainted with the Orthodox Church and the way God is using you and and and the movement,...

...this ancient movement, in such a profound way. So it's an honor. It's really an honor to me to be associated with you and the movements that you represent. But the hope of freedom Sunday is an incredibly exciting movement of spirit of God. Bates back to the issue of July the second one thousand nine hundred and fifty four. Everything changed in America those most people don't know what happened on July the Second Nineteen Befyfour, but on that day Lennon Dins Johnson, then senator from Texas. It returned from his hard fought battle for the Senate in Texas angry at two businessmen will opposed him through their secular not for profit corporations. I have a one C threes, because they thought he was soft on communism. When he got back to DC there was an overhauld attack code occurring. Going through the Senate. He stepped up in the end of a few words what became known as the Johnson Amendment, which said a five hundred and one c three cannot endorse or posed the candidate director indirectly. The language of it was quite ambiguous. But what was most fascinating is that up until that time, a hundred and sixty six years of American history, pastors had complete freedom because the understanding of our founding fathers was there was the the complete separation churches state, no governital intrusion into the pulpit at all. Astor's freely opposed or endorsed Canadas as they chose all the way F oneos eighteen hundred. We know the election of Thomas Jefferson. Up until fifty four, one thousand nine hundred and fifty four. At that point it all changed. Johnson's chief of staff would later admit in an article written by a brilliant scholar from Purdue University, that they didn't have churches in mind at all. He was just angry at two businessmen, trying to shove them down so they could not oppose him ever again. He did not have churches in mind all. But the Irus stepped in and became began to put this sanction upon pastors, and the result is a cultural myth has developed to cultural miss one is this incorrect definition of separation church and state, which says in effect that the state has con right to control of the church, when actually it's a contract exactly the opposite. The intentional meeting. But the second notion is that we is pastors somehow kind of deal with the IRS, saying we won't talk about political, so cold political issues as long as you give a TEX exemption. Well, that's not how it came about historically at all. The church always had historical text exemption because our founding fathers designed it that way, because they wanted no governital intrusion on the church. The IRUS in the exists one thousand eight hundred and sixty two approximately. Of course, the Johnson Amendment was the first to make a speech issue tied at all with this. No speech on on any political item now here's how it's slid. If I would have said fifty years ago tearing up a baby in the womb is a bad thing, people say, of course it is. Say it to day people the fashion.

You're being too political by saying thirty years ago the practice of homosexuality is not acceptable to God according to the Bible. People they will, of course it is. Say it today after you're being too political. I would have said ten years ago marriage is one man, one woman. People there will. Of course it is. You said today past. You're being too political. The problem is people are now labeling political what it is actually biblical. They don't recognize biblical preaching any longer. And so along comes the alliance defending freedom, a group of two thousand two hundred attorneys who said we've got to get this to court. In fifty eight years they've tried to get the Johnson amendment the court, feeling it's unconstitutional based upon the First Amendment, freedom of speech the freedom of religion, but it's never been able to get the court for some reason. So finally, in two thousand and eight these two thousand two hundred attorneys allied together and selected thirty three pastors to intentionally exercise their biblical authority, Their Constitutional Rights based upon the First Amendment, and had them defive from the pulpit the Johnson amendments, record their sermons and mail them to the IRS, hoping to provoke a court case so this could be taken to court and get rid of the Johnson Amen that once in Bral, but nothing happened. So on two thousand and nine and eighty four pastors did the same thing. Nothing happened. Two Thousand and ten one hundred pastors did that same thing. Nothing happened. Last year, five hundred and thirty nine pastors is the same thing. And now this weekend, October the seventh, one thousand five hundred pastors across America will intentionally exercise their constitutional rights and the five what we believe is an unconstitutional regulation, record their sermons and one thousand fifteen hundred pastors will do that in hopes again provoking a court case. So these twenty two hundred attorneys, they are prepared to defend us pro bono. If I to get to Johnson Amendment and we can read out and we can return to the pulpit the from censorship it now has. We're not saying a pastor has to endorse or oppose the candidate in the pulpit. US, we're all these things that it's up to the pastor and the church and the government to restrict any type of speech whatever. The pastor of builds. God is golden to say that's what the pastor is to say. Hmmm, Amen, may it be blessed. May it be blessed. Pastor Jim, do you have reason to believe that this effort will in fact provoke a response, of formal response by the government? We do not know at all. There's no clues and the attorneys, I look at the attorneys on that one, but there's no evidence at all one way or another on this. So we're going into we're also trying to approach it not only through the legal system, we're trying to approach it at the same time through the legislature and see if there's any way in Washington DC we can get Congress to repeal this horrific law that violates the first, First Amendment. I might point out that my attorney friends, while they...

...see it from a legal perspective, I see from a spiritual perspective, and by then I mean we long for a an outbreak of renewing of the things of God across America, starting in the hearts of humanity, footing family by family, city by city. We long for renewal and awakening to occur in our nation. I personally do not believe we will ever see an awakening until the pastors become unintimidated, UNMUZZLEDER, not bullied, and set free. They're a one lesson organizations and out sixty thousand letters, fixtyzero pastors the scene, letters as much as two weeks ago saying don't you there speak out the issues, you'll lose your tax exemption potentially. The fact is, in fifty eight years no church has ever lost this tax exemption. I want to or repeat that make sure people get them. In fifty eight years, not one single church lost this tax exemption. One Church in upstate New York at one point lost its tax exempt letter of declaration. That's not the same as losing your tax exempt in that church is still going around today. When the IRS context to church, what happens is a church will either kind of roll over and played dead and say we're star, we're star, will never do that again. Or if it hurts lawyers up and says we'll meet you in court, the IRS will string them along for a year or two. Was Ready to go to court, they'll back away and say well, we're just going to close the case. Don't do it again. So it's never gotten the court in all and all this long period of time. We think it's a very critical thing. What has happened is pastors are easily intimidated. They're easily muzzled by this. They believe a cultural myth that somehow they can speak. I've dealt with pastors to going and think you can hand out voter guides totally legal. Sometimes you think you can't even register people to vote your church. It's remarkable what pastors think they cannot do. The law has an ambiguity built into it, but there's a cultural that this built around it and pastors of backed away so severely that I'm going as pastors aren't really that frightened by the IRS because they're so far away from it, but they're afraid of is somebody in their Pew who has bought into this cultural myth who emails them on Monday morning and say, pastor, you're being a little too political there. If you keep this up, I just might leave the church and with me will go my tithe check and se slowly pastors have started backing away, and I would ask the question, how's that worked out for us in America these last sixty years? You know, the communities are are more righteous they used to be. If we preach on personal issues, is okay, church issues okay, families is okay, but if we may biblical application to national life, people says, Oh, you better not do that. But I'm praying that there's a renewal strengthening of pastors they'll stand up and make biblical application. And not...

...only ripping up babies in the womb to bring a halt of that, only the destruction of marriage, but even even our national depth. The scripture says thou shalt not steal from future generations, so we wouldn't have the natural depth that we currently have. That we cannot pay back economic suicide. Want if three hundredzero churches in America had been educating voters, when they go into the voting booth, to vote Biblical yes, so, Pastor Jim, even if the IRS even if the government does not formally take up the Gauntlet and take us to court, we're still seeing tremendous blessing. It sounds from the numbers that you were sharing with our listeners that more and more pastors are coming to cognitive awareness that it's time to regain reclaim their rightful place as the guardians of the moral conscience of our nation. Would you agree with that? I do. I think there's a real understanding that were an extremely serious condition here in this nation. Our goal all the way is not to save a nation. Our goals expand the Kingdom of God, but the place that we have been put on earth at this time. We all are clearly aware that America has been a bastion for truth, it's been a bastion for freedom. There's no place on America that can bring there's no place on the earth that can bring but America currently is bringing and so God has chosen to bless her. And so it's a critical time and pastors are rising up. There's an enormous swell of awareness that we are in some extremely serious waters if we do not become bold. So I'm actually encouraged with what I'm seeing in this rising up among many pastors. Thank God, Pastor Jim, faithful Christians of Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant traditions are interacting and collaborating in America in new and hitherto unheard of waste. As an Orthodox priest and a scholar myself, I have benefited greatly from interaction with you, for instance, and with many others who are outside of the Orthodox tradition. If you had an opportunity, master, if you had an opportunity to address the assembly of Orthodox bishops in the United States, or perhaps a gathering of more than the twozero Orthodox priests in our nation, pastor him, what would you say to us? What would you say to them? There was a statement from Christianity Day magazine in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, April the fifth that said the secret of Billy Graham's ministry was his capacity to engage it transcend culture. That's sentence jumped off the page at me that day when I read it so many years ago. Engage yet transcend culture. And so how do we do how do we engage the culture? We tend to do one or the other either. We engage it well, but we as salt loses savor and so we're worthless. Or maybe we transcendently keep our values, but we don't connect what we become irrelevant. How do we do both? That's the that's the that's the Quandry, because we want to be pastoral and loving the very same people were loving. We also...

...have to be prophetic to sometimes they stop at that's sin and the challenge of a pastor is we want to be winsome, compelling, magnetic and drawing the unblaeving world and and grow those who already believers. And yet we find ourselves. How, then, these take very firm prophetic hardlines. Biblical stances on issues in our cultures are not very positive, very in lies the challenge I spoke of earlier. Were citizens of Jerusalem but residents of Bablin. So what do we do? My own personal view is on the engagement part. Here's where God has convicted me. I'm not suggesting every was going to be convicted this way, but on my particular part, here's where I felt convicted. The Lord has told me to reach out and establish deep relationships with those people that I perceived to be the most hostile to me. So I've invested lots of energy, lots of energy forming relationships with those of the top level that I can possibly get through for the leaders of the opposite of these issues, on same sex marriage, of pro abortion, you name it, I've got to go to them and form, if I could, some kind of a relationship of friendship. That would be honoring the Christ without compromising my values. And of the interesting it's a very interesting discussion we can have with you, the the string of people that now I count as a friend, and I hope they look at me the same way. They know I disagree with everything they're doing. I opposed it strongly on biblical grounds. But I choose to reach out because I think it's what Jesus would have me do when he was when the question was raised about Jesus, why would you run with people like that mark to sixteen? Well, he did it because he cared about all people. So that's the one thing engage the culture, and so I've reached out, for example, the person who's ahead of the top organization, watching the DC, that funds the whole same sex marriage movement across America. I reached out to him. I've reached out to a host of people like that. I reached out to the poster child of same sex marriage internationally, Bishop Eugene Robinson of New Hampshire, and formed a friendship with him. Again, I think what he's walking in is sin. There's nothing about this right. But I felt like the Lord put a thumb in my back and said do them. So I've done it. That's the engagement part, the transcended part, because I think we understand, we failed to understand, the depth and breath of our moral authorities. God has put us in the environments were in for a purpose. I went yesterday on the Colbert report. If you know Stephen Colbert and that television show in New York City, it sort of mocks and spoos everything and some people that don't get there go on, don't there, go on, he'll, he'll beffoon you and I said I suspect he will, and he he did. He poked fun at me, poked front of my ideology and he hilarically funning. I mean you have you have to laugh, quite frankly, how much of what he says. But I thought the Council for some very wise people and they said we must be willing to go in the lions, then we must go. And so I went on that show. I went on CNN yesterday in New York City and they were...

...pretty intense. To seebs earlier today. And and so that's that's part of what the Lord has called me to go and stand boldly. And on the CBS that guy asked me the question. They says, what right do you have to go you talk about abortion, won't you stop there? Why do you have to go on and call attention to what candidates are for it or against them? And I said, who are you? Who are you to tell me what I can say in my pulpits? Who are you, based upon the first constitution, to be a pulpit place to me to dictate what I can say? It was we can go toe to toe with these people with moral authority. One day I was on my way to a political event and I was just going to give the open prayer and I was tired the what am I doing this for? These people don't take the prayer seriously. I'm just a hood ornament on the car, you know, make the car look all nicer, but then help the car run it all. Why am I even going to this? And Al was getting there when, along with the Lord, saying I can't believe I waste my time doing is when I felt the Holy Spirit say if I heard from the spirit of God correctly. Said No, you are an infectious carrier of me, my spirit, and so where you go, you help restrain evil. Now that changed my whole view. I walked into that room. It wasn't me, Jim Garl I know what I'm not and and but I know who I carry within me. And I think we underestimate the moral authority of the word of God. The pulpits in America, three hundred thousand pulpits in America, could change this nation if they were filled with people who feared nothing but God and love nothing. The truth this, this is a winnable war. All it takes is the people of God. Even we didn't have three hundred thousand. What if we had critical mass? What we had? What do we had tied? What we had? Thirtyzero pastors that would stand this Sun and absolutely say do what you want to us, but we will stand for truth. I personally think we have come to the moment. We're serving Christ is going to cost way more than it ever has an America. We tell the stories of bonhoffer. Why do we talk about Dedetrenk bonhoffer? Why is he so famous? Why is there a New York best seller out, six hundred pages along, about him? It's not because he built the biggest church or wrote the best seller, or because he had a big radio TV ministry. It's because on Echel the night one thousand nine hundred and forty five, they stripped him naked, put the piano wire around his neck and hug him because he would not compromise truth that they have come to stop telling stories about Deetrenk bonehoffer and start realizing we need to become deetrink bonhoffers. That's what I would say to my Orthodox brethren. After Jim I'm trying to get my breath here. I'm making my cross, taking in what you just said. Who let me say, on my behalf and on behalf of my listeners, a sincere thank you and a sincere wish that the Lord, God the Almighty, might keep you in the palm of his hand, confirmed the work of your hands and your ministry. Please, for the sake of God and for the sake of our nation,...

...keep going. I can share this deeply personal story and I don't share this to provoke sympathy, because simply won't do any good. Prayer wheel, but simply won't. I've been driving while we've been interviewed. I'm now arriving at an airport and I'm flying back to Houston, not to my home, my home San Diego. I'm flying to Houston because my wife's been in the battle with cancer for five years and three months that many of you are aware of, and we went to she goes to Indianers cancer cent of the best we can find in America. We fly there the last two years and particularly going back and forth and back and forth. We went through a month ago. We thought they're really here. At three days they put her right in a hospital. We had surgery. The surgery was successful and what they attempted to do, but they were unable to get the cancer. Only three to four percent lived to this length of time. I'm madly in love with my wife. Had Been married forty one years. I can't fathom like without her. So I'm getting on a plane just momentarily. You may hear the jets actually in the background, and I'm going to fly back to Houston. I hope to get her home in the next few days, we believe, and then get her back to Houston in a month to try to dress the cancer they couldn't address in the surgery. The cancers come back seven times in five years. But here's the part I want a share. When it came back to the third time, we really were stunt, we were shocked and I took the phone call from the oncologist by myself. I was home alone, she was not there, and when he brought the word I was just really, really floored. I said, Dr We expect a miracle, you know. We expect America, where we're really believing God to touch her. Any events that worked not to occur in the realm of the natural how long did you have? And he answered the question and my body physically shook I was so shocked what he said. Now, what he said is not all import for our purposes now, except to say this. A week later, sitting in that same chair in my study at home, I felt I heard if I heard the spirit of God correctly, if I heard the spirit of God correctly, I thought the spirit of God said to me, you're fighting for the life of your wife and you're fighting for the life of your nation and both of them, barring a miracle, have a very short time frame. Now it's not the listeners task to fight for the life of my wife, except as they want a prayer partner with me, and at Skyline Church Dot Org they can click on Carroll and they can see the bay request. But we are jointly fighting for the life of our nation, not because we've confused America with the Kingdom of God. We know the difference, we understand totally the difference, but we are called to not see a culture completely collapse in immorality and sin and economic suicide, as we're put here for purpose as salt, and I would just say to us we have a very limited window of time left or religious liberties are just evaporating at a rate I never thought I would see in my life. I've been studying the political atmosphere of this country from age nine to the present. I'm not a young man anymore. I got hooked on at age nine and I'm astounded what this country has become an is becoming, and I would just say to all my special Orthodox friends take seriously...

...this notion we have a short window of time left and make decisions based upon that. Lib As. If we have a short time to see a turn. I believe if will operate accordingly in action, prayer and fastening, meditating on the word and and God Ordain calls to action what we are to do, he will be faithful, like the sons of Iszakar, who knew what Israel ought to do, the passage you open this radio show with. We will know what to do and this would still be a nation that could be turned and today could be the next day of the next great awakening. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Pastor Jim. God's speed and be assured of our prayers for yourself and especially for Carol. Thank you so much, my brother. Is a delight and a joy to be with you, my joy godless. We hope that you have enjoyed and have been edified by this presentation offered to you by Patristic Nectar Publications, a nonprofit organization committed to nourishing the spiritually thirsty with the sweet teachings of the Holy Fathers. Until next time,.

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